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Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/07/Category:Surnames

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Category:Surnames

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There are two flat cats for surnames, viz. Category:Surnames and Category:Surnames (flat list). Surely, there shouldn't be two flat cats for the same topic, should it? Either merge Category:Surnames (flat list) to Category:Surnames or remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Agree One category is enough, let it indeed be Category:Surnames. JopkeB (talk) 10:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JopkeB:  Comment Although I have proposed two options here, my personal preference is to keep Category:Surnames (flat list) and remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. This is because the Category:Surnames category has several subcats for hierarchical categorization and I don't want to clutter this category with individual surnames here. There should be a dedicated category for individual surnames and Category:Surnames (flat list) is the best suit. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:13, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then I don't know anymore. What would be the purpose of Category:Surnames and what would be the difference with the flat list? It has now about 2.000 more subcategories than the flat list. JopkeB (talk) 15:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's weird.
I'd expect the subcategories of Category:Norwegian-language surnames to be only in the flatlist not in the other. Enhancing999 (talk) 12:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the proposal by @Sbb1413:  Comment I think it makes more sense to keep Category:Surnames (flat list) and remove the flat cat status of Category:Surnames. I like the idea of having a category that lists all surnames while also being able to navigate surnames by origin and other properties. But those two should not be the same category. As it stands Category:Surnames is too cluttered, IMO.
I think the problem could be alleviated somewhat if the {{Wikidata Infobox}} template would automatically add the appropriate categories to a surname category. For example, Category:Shetty (surname) has its current revision (at the time of writing) manually linked to both categories. But its wikidata entry Q7495684 ties it to the Kannada writing system. While I don't see a "Kannada surnames" category or similar yet, having a red link would prompt someone to eventually create a similar category.
Unfotunately, I don't know how involved that process would be. But at least we should be able to use the tools at hand to eventually clean up the Category:Surnames category IMO. --Stux (talk) 13:35, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've notified for this discussion on the Village pump. - Jmabel ! talk 19:12, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

While I think there is a consensus solution here, so many categories will be affected by this (in terms of their parents) I'm not satisfied with having this few voices and a somewhat stale discussion. Here's what I think is the consensus (in descending order of how confident I am that these are matters of agreement):

  1. There should be a flat category for surnames.
  2. The flat category should be Category:Surnames (flat list); it should contain only categories for individual surnames (and it should contain all of those).
  3. Category:Surnames should be a normal category; it should be diffused appropriately.
  4. Category:Surnames (flat list) should be a subcat of Category:Surnames
  5. Every category for an individual surname belongs both in Category:Surnames (flat list) and somewhere else (possibly more than one place, e.g. see ) below Category:Surnames.
  6. Ideally we diffuse Category:Surnames as much as possible into direct or indirect subcategories such as Category:German surnames, Category:Spanish-language surnames, etc. Categories for individual surnames can go directly in Category:Surnames for lack of a better parent category, but ideally they are to be moved to a more precise subcat.
  7. Category:Surnames may also contain other content related to surnames; it can even directly include files such as the audio file for the pronunciation of a surname for which we lack a category.

Jmabel ! talk 19:29, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

 Agree with all of these points. ReneeWrites (talk) 22:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
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